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	<title>Comments on: First Comes Marriage…Then Divorce</title>
	<atom:link href="http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/</link>
	<description>by James Richardson</description>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-533</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticians.com/?p=620#comment-533</guid>
		<description>&quot;Regardless of gender, marrying for mutual love is a fundamentally radical, contemporary concept. &quot; 
You seem to be making some &#039;radical&#039; and opinionated claims, yet you have no citations or hard evidence to back any of it up. Marrying for mutual love is not contemporary, check out some of the stories in the bible such as Ruth, or perhaps &#039;Women&#039;s lives in Medieval Europe&#039; ; &quot;Not all young people, however, had marriages arranged for them. Some were from poor families who had nothing to negotiate and hence would either not marry or marry whom they pleased.&quot; Women&#039;s Lives In Medieval Europe. Routledge, Chapman, and Hall Inc.: New York, 1993.
It is defiantly a rough world we live in. Marriage and divorce go hand in hand as some experts would say, but of course no one really thinks about the other, close to half of America&#039;s population that some how keeps their life commitment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Regardless of gender, marrying for mutual love is a fundamentally radical, contemporary concept. &#8221;<br />
You seem to be making some &#8216;radical&#8217; and opinionated claims, yet you have no citations or hard evidence to back any of it up. Marrying for mutual love is not contemporary, check out some of the stories in the bible such as Ruth, or perhaps &#8216;Women&#8217;s lives in Medieval Europe&#8217; ; &#8220;Not all young people, however, had marriages arranged for them. Some were from poor families who had nothing to negotiate and hence would either not marry or marry whom they pleased.&#8221; Women&#8217;s Lives In Medieval Europe. Routledge, Chapman, and Hall Inc.: New York, 1993.<br />
It is defiantly a rough world we live in. Marriage and divorce go hand in hand as some experts would say, but of course no one really thinks about the other, close to half of America&#8217;s population that some how keeps their life commitment.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Prince</title>
		<link>http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Prince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 02:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticians.com/?p=620#comment-469</guid>
		<description>&quot;Furthermore, I think it can be stated with confidence that your secular view of marriage’s origins is all wrong. Marriage certainly began with mythic thinking: the male and female together as the image of the divine. And it is this very concern that drives opposition to same-sex “marriage” today.&quot;

David, where exactly did you find this research?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Furthermore, I think it can be stated with confidence that your secular view of marriage’s origins is all wrong. Marriage certainly began with mythic thinking: the male and female together as the image of the divine. And it is this very concern that drives opposition to same-sex “marriage” today.&#8221;</p>
<p>David, where exactly did you find this research?</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-467</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 13:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticians.com/?p=620#comment-467</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;The institution of marriage is not one of fixed social constructs frozen in the white picket fences of yesteryear. The social conservative notion of the “traditional marriage,” the intellectually bankrupt brainchild of Anita Bryant, purposefully ignores marriage’s tumultuous history of change. From its inception, marriage was a loveless institution, focused solely on increasing financial stability and the family work-force, and a means to enforce obedience in a fiercely patriarchal society.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This paragraph is pure bullshit.

James, as a liberal Republican you have a poor grasp of social conservativism. The social conservative position was nicely stated by American Elephant in his comment above. Anita Bryant&#039;s views on homosexuality were driven by her reactionary religious attitude. Social conservatism and religious attitudes are not the same.

As for marriage itself, it predates civilization, and has been practiced in matriarchal and patriarchal cultures alike.

Furthermore, I think it can be stated with confidence that your secular view of marriage&#039;s origins is all wrong. Marriage certainly began with mythic thinking: the male and female together as the image of the divine. And it is this very concern that drives opposition to same-sex &quot;marriage&quot; today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;The institution of marriage is not one of fixed social constructs frozen in the white picket fences of yesteryear. The social conservative notion of the “traditional marriage,” the intellectually bankrupt brainchild of Anita Bryant, purposefully ignores marriage’s tumultuous history of change. From its inception, marriage was a loveless institution, focused solely on increasing financial stability and the family work-force, and a means to enforce obedience in a fiercely patriarchal society.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>This paragraph is pure bullshit.</p>
<p>James, as a liberal Republican you have a poor grasp of social conservativism. The social conservative position was nicely stated by American Elephant in his comment above. Anita Bryant&#8217;s views on homosexuality were driven by her reactionary religious attitude. Social conservatism and religious attitudes are not the same.</p>
<p>As for marriage itself, it predates civilization, and has been practiced in matriarchal and patriarchal cultures alike.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I think it can be stated with confidence that your secular view of marriage&#8217;s origins is all wrong. Marriage certainly began with mythic thinking: the male and female together as the image of the divine. And it is this very concern that drives opposition to same-sex &#8220;marriage&#8221; today.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-466</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 13:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticians.com/?p=620#comment-466</guid>
		<description>Well, that figures, doesn&#039;t it.

They provide the impetus for the Court&#039;s highly inventive reading of the State&#039;s equal rights amendment which forced same-sex marriage on Massachusetts, yet they can&#039;t really take advantage of the legal right their activism won.

Seems like poetic justice to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that figures, doesn&#8217;t it.</p>
<p>They provide the impetus for the Court&#8217;s highly inventive reading of the State&#8217;s equal rights amendment which forced same-sex marriage on Massachusetts, yet they can&#8217;t really take advantage of the legal right their activism won.</p>
<p>Seems like poetic justice to me.</p>
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		<title>By: a red voice</title>
		<link>http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-463</link>
		<dc:creator>a red voice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticians.com/?p=620#comment-463</guid>
		<description>I appreciate your insights. 
I have to agree with you. 
I am not pro-gay marriage at all, but I don&#039;t believe you can use this gay divorce as a reason not to support gay marriage as so many heterosexuals get divorced too - which is also damaging for children.  
There are other reasons why I don&#039;t support gay marriage (but I won&#039;t go into it here)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate your insights.<br />
I have to agree with you.<br />
I am not pro-gay marriage at all, but I don&#8217;t believe you can use this gay divorce as a reason not to support gay marriage as so many heterosexuals get divorced too &#8211; which is also damaging for children.<br />
There are other reasons why I don&#8217;t support gay marriage (but I won&#8217;t go into it here)&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: American Elephant</title>
		<link>http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-461</link>
		<dc:creator>American Elephant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticians.com/?p=620#comment-461</guid>
		<description>Oh, I meant to include a link on those divorce statistics. &lt;a href=&quot;http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/misreporting-on-divorce/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here it is&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I meant to include a link on those divorce statistics. <a href="http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/misreporting-on-divorce/" rel="nofollow">Here it is</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: American Elephant</title>
		<link>http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-460</link>
		<dc:creator>American Elephant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticians.com/?p=620#comment-460</guid>
		<description>Your statistics on marriage are simply incorrect. Only about 33% of first marriages end in divorce which means approximately 67% of straight couples who get married, stay married.

Also, you are confusing the reasons individual couples get married (love, financial stability, etc) with the reason society subsidizes marriage through the government. Two very different things. You ought to read up on some of the statutes and court decisions spelling out those reasons. 

Marriage provides great benefits to society, which is the real reason we encourage it through our government. Any talk of changing the institution needs to focus on the stated purpose of the institution, and whether changing it will serve to better fulfill that purpose or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your statistics on marriage are simply incorrect. Only about 33% of first marriages end in divorce which means approximately 67% of straight couples who get married, stay married.</p>
<p>Also, you are confusing the reasons individual couples get married (love, financial stability, etc) with the reason society subsidizes marriage through the government. Two very different things. You ought to read up on some of the statutes and court decisions spelling out those reasons. </p>
<p>Marriage provides great benefits to society, which is the real reason we encourage it through our government. Any talk of changing the institution needs to focus on the stated purpose of the institution, and whether changing it will serve to better fulfill that purpose or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Prince</title>
		<link>http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Prince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 03:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticians.com/?p=620#comment-457</guid>
		<description>I couldn&#039;t possibly agree with you more... which really leaves me at a loss for words.

After four attempts to craft some sort of response to your assertions in this article... I find myself with only one thing to say -- Kudos.

There may be hope for you, after-all, Mr. James Richardson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t possibly agree with you more&#8230; which really leaves me at a loss for words.</p>
<p>After four attempts to craft some sort of response to your assertions in this article&#8230; I find myself with only one thing to say &#8212; Kudos.</p>
<p>There may be hope for you, after-all, Mr. James Richardson.</p>
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		<title>By: GayPatriot &#187; The Gay Divorcées &#38; the Meaning of Marriage</title>
		<link>http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-456</link>
		<dc:creator>GayPatriot &#187; The Gay Divorcées &#38; the Meaning of Marriage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticians.com/?p=620#comment-456</guid>
		<description>[...] that the Goodridges&#8217; divorce is a setback for gay marriage, Richardson contends it helps make the case for expanding the defintion of that ancient institution: Given the staggering heterosexual divorce rate and contemporary American’s pathetic social [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that the Goodridges&#8217; divorce is a setback for gay marriage, Richardson contends it helps make the case for expanding the defintion of that ancient institution: Given the staggering heterosexual divorce rate and contemporary American’s pathetic social [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ali A. Akbar</title>
		<link>http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-454</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali A. Akbar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 17:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticians.com/?p=620#comment-454</guid>
		<description>A few points:

@Alan - you have to at least be 60 or 70 years old. The Religious Right has been a strong faction of the Republican Party for many years - and a winning strategy up until now.

On the actual substance - It&#039;s tough to admit, but doesn&#039;t this prove the &quot;natural&quot; argument to be false? We live in a post modern society where divorce on demand is the &#039;norm.&#039; Sad,  but I&#039;d have to agree with James on this one.

I don&#039;t know about this &quot;culture war,&quot; however when it&#039;s all said and done - let&#039;s get the Government out of the supposed &quot;sacred&quot; institution of marriage. Ha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few points:</p>
<p>@Alan &#8211; you have to at least be 60 or 70 years old. The Religious Right has been a strong faction of the Republican Party for many years &#8211; and a winning strategy up until now.</p>
<p>On the actual substance &#8211; It&#8217;s tough to admit, but doesn&#8217;t this prove the &#8220;natural&#8221; argument to be false? We live in a post modern society where divorce on demand is the &#8216;norm.&#8217; Sad,  but I&#8217;d have to agree with James on this one.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about this &#8220;culture war,&#8221; however when it&#8217;s all said and done &#8211; let&#8217;s get the Government out of the supposed &#8220;sacred&#8221; institution of marriage. Ha.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan M</title>
		<link>http://skepticians.com/2009/02/first-comes-marriage%e2%80%a6then-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 14:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticians.com/?p=620#comment-450</guid>
		<description>After years of catering to the religious faction of the GOP, I left the Republican Party in 2004. I am now a registered Independent, but people like you give me hope that I may one day be able to change that damn registration card.

Half of the country gets divorced and you don&#039;t hear a peep from Mineau on the societal implications (Oh, think of the poor child, blah, blah, blah). That prick needs to take a walk and get out of the Goodridge&#039;s business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After years of catering to the religious faction of the GOP, I left the Republican Party in 2004. I am now a registered Independent, but people like you give me hope that I may one day be able to change that damn registration card.</p>
<p>Half of the country gets divorced and you don&#8217;t hear a peep from Mineau on the societal implications (Oh, think of the poor child, blah, blah, blah). That prick needs to take a walk and get out of the Goodridge&#8217;s business.</p>
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